Montreat Presbyterian Church Votes To Leave PC(USA)
January 31st, 2007 · Posted in Christianity, Current Affairs, Religion ·It’s sad.
The Montreat Presbyterian Churchhas voted 311 to 27 to leave the Presbyterian Church, USA and join with the Evangelical Presbyterian Church.
This is not really surprising — this is not the first Church or the largest Church to do this — but it is sad on many levels. The Montreat Presbyterian Church is located in Montreat, NC — the home of Montreat College and the Montreat Conference Center– a major conference center of the Presbyterian Church, USA. The Presbyterian Historical Society used to have records housed there. In other words, when people said the word:Montreat the Presbyterian Church, USA would come to mind.
While the Montreat Presbyterian Church is a separate entity from the college and conference center, it was always associated with them. The decision of the members of the Montreat Presbyterian Church to leave the PC(USA) is truly sad. It had been hoped that they would stay within the denomination that had loved and supported them — and were connected with in so many ways.
The Presbytery of Western North Carolina will now have to approve this move by the Montreat Presbyterian Church, so things could potentially go from bad to worse.
You can read the article here for more information.
It’s sad indeed.
February 2 Update
I got the following comment on this post and, since others may be wondering the same thing, wanted to respond here instead of in a comment.
The comment — from “James” — reads:
Do you agree with there stance on Biblical issues and need to leave a Denomination that strongly supports such issues as homosexual marriages and I also believe homosexual pastors?
And my response is:
James, I appreciate your reading my blog — and making a comment.
While I can’t say what the stand of the Montreat Presbyterian Church is on Biblical issues, I can say that I believe what 2 Timothy 3:16 says:
All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness
One of the saddest things I see in all this is that the Presbyterian Church (USA) is perceived as endorsing homosexual marriage and ordaining homosexual ministers. Actually, we have voted down allowing ministers to marry homosexual couples on at least one occasion that I know of — and continue to affirm our Book of Order statement that our ministers must live “in fidelity in marriage or chastity in singleness”. I find it sad that those who disagree with these principles have somehow come to be seen as a majority in the denomination — when actually they are not.
I especially find it sad that these issues seem to take precedence over the unity we can have in Christ.
February 1st, 2007 at 8:43 am
when i hear ‘montreat’ i think of billy graham then i think of baptist, i usually don’t associate presbyterian with montreat
February 1st, 2007 at 9:39 am
As far as Billy Graham, the article I linked to (which may be password protected — sorry!) states:
The Montreat Church has been the home congregation for Billy and Ruth Graham, where she has been a member. Health problems have prevented both of the Grahams from participating in recent years.
I don’t understand the connection between Baptists and Montreat — their conference center — Ridgecrest — is not in Montreat. It’s close — but not in Montreat.
February 1st, 2007 at 1:27 pm
probably my mistake in association. I think of Billy Graham, Montreat, and Ridgecrest to think about it, all together. Guess I thought it all Baptist. My ignorance I suppose!
February 1st, 2007 at 4:02 pm
No problem!
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Do you agree with there stance on Biblical issues and need to leave a Denomination that strongly supports such issues as homosexual marriages and I also believe homosexual pastors?
February 3rd, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Thanks for the comment. it is sad that the church is divided on so many things. we can only pray that the Spirit of God would bring us into all truth in order that we may love Him and serve Him in a more full way.
February 3rd, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Amen to that!
February 8th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Clarity on the part of our Presbyterian Church USA would be helpful. What do they believe? In our church in Brevard, it’s so hard to know where we stand on so many issues. Homosexuality, (leadership of) Christ as the Only Way to Heaven being the two major issues that come up over and over again in our congregation. Everyone seems to step around the issues. Sounds to me like Montreat is taking a stand for God. Are they wrong? Sounds to me like they’re doing what we all need to do.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Thanks for reading and for the comment, Tamara.
I agree that clarity would be helpful. I pray that it will come — but even if it does not I pray that we can continue to work together and reach out to the world with the love of God. Maybe we should try to focus more on what we can do together and less on the issues that divide us.
February 12th, 2007 at 9:22 am
I understand what you are saying. But what exactly does God say on these issues? We all have the same guide (The Bible) and I really feel like we need to focus on what God says. Yes love each other, but we should have a general sense of what we believe. In our church we have elders who believe that Jesus isn’t the only way to Heaven. To me that sounds more like a Unitarian belief than a Presbyterian belief. But maybe I’m wrong. Am I? I’ve actually heard people in one of our Sunday School classes make fun of Baptists because they hold the Bible up as the only measure of what God says. Ummm — is it not? Yes there is the Torah, the Koran — but are we not Christians? Do we not believe any more that the Christian Bible is THE WORD of God? Everything is so gray now - How do we raise our children as Christians when we can’t even agree on what we believe? As a mom, I find it really frustrating.
February 12th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Tamara — It is frustrating indeed. I personally would have a problem ordaining Elders who do not believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation — and would be frustrated with members of the Church who refuse to believe that the Bible is God’s word to us — and should shape our faith and our practice.
At this time (there is no way to know where God may lead me later) I feel God calling on my to stay in the PC (USA) and work to bring the denomination I back in line with more Biblical principles. I hope you and others who feel this way will do the same.
Thanks again for participating in this discussion.
February 14th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Yes, we’ll be staying with our church and the PC(USA). I love our church and I understand the need for Liberals and Conservatives to meld together for the sake of all. With you, I keep praying that we can serve God together in a way that is pleasing to Him. It is sad about Montreat, but maybe this is what is best for them. I pray that we all find clarity to see the path that God would have us take. Thanks for providing this site for discussion.
February 14th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Thanks, Tamara. I appreciate your adding to the discussion here. Blessings!
February 19th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Just for the record, I am a PC(USA) elder who believes that God is able to reach American Indians, Hindus, Muslims and others who have never heard of Jesus. I do not believe these were the folks He had in mind when he said to the gathered apostles the words recorded in John 14:6. I also believe that he desires ministry to “gays” and also that there are situations in which that ministry can best be accomplished by “gay” ministers. Furthermore I believe that The Sprit speaks to us in many and diverse ways. I certainly understand that these views are anathema to many who read this post.
Having so spoken, I also wish to say that I believe that any schism within The Body grieves The Lord. If we must allow The Body to be torn asunder, I urge that we try to quit with the fighting and to earnestly endeavor to love, support, encourage, and learn from one another.
Charles
February 20th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Hi Charles,
I also believe that God can pretty much reach whoever He would like to reach. But the key word is reach. Yes someone that unfortunately dies without hearing the Good News about Salvation - God in His mercy - I know if it’s His will He can reach them. The point I was trying to make however, is that those we have reached, those who have heard about THE WAY that Jesus speaks need to accept it in their hearts in order to be assured of Salvation.
Muslims, Jews, other faiths that I know, see Christians as fool or the infidel. Most know what we believe and throw it away as foolishness. They don’t acknowledge the sacrifice that God’s Son made. But our salvation is assured through acceptance of the Cross. God had a Son and He sent Him to die for us. I believe that once you’ve heard about that sacrifice He would want you to acknowledge it. If I sent my daughter to die for the world’s sins and someone denied that it happened, I don’t think I’d be too thrilled. As a Presbyterian Church (USA) member and a Baptist Church Secretary, I feel that it’s my responsiblity to show the WAY that Jesus talked about in John 14:6. Also He did say “. . . No one cometh unto the Father, but by Me.” Who am I or who are you for that matter to change what He said? I’m speaking sincerely, and from my heart. Really, who am I, or who is anyone without Christ’s sacrifice? Lost . . .
As far as the Homosexual issue . . . It’s sin. I don’t believe in the word Homosexual anyway. That implies that they were born that way and that has not been proven. I would call someone who says they are a homosexual a person who fornicates with someone of the same sex. The same way I would not call someone a Glutton. I would call them someone who deliberately does something harmful to the body God gave them by overeating. God loves us and he wants us to respect the body that He gave us. When we label each other, then it’s harder to peal that label off and do God’s will. When we label the sin instead, then we point them to God there is greater hope of doing His will, whatever that may be. They don’t have to be stuck with the label that society has given them and that they’ve given themselves. I have many friends who call themselves Homosexual, but I just see them as friends who are struggling with sin the same way I am.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
This is indeed a difficult issue. I believe that the ordination of homosexuals is wrong — and that salvation is only through faith inn Christ. But isn’t that what a majority of Presbyterians believe? Some have tried to change the Book of Order to make it possible to ordain homosexuals, but the denomination has refused to do so. Some have tried to say that salvation can come from other avenues besides faith in Christ, but many in the denomination have protested. It seems to me that there is no reason to leave the denomination.
Thanks — Tamara and Charles — for your comments.
February 20th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
[...] With splits within the Presbyterian Church (USA) making headlines and some feeling they need to separate themselves from others instead of “stand with” them, I found this post at the Pyromaniacs to be interesting. [...]
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:58 am
Tamara, your views about God’s “reach” are very much like my own. I am glad you are able to share friendship with folks whose sexual feelings and behavior you find unacceptable. And I agree with the emphasis Rev. Bill makes in the link above, that we should resist mininterpreting many troublesome issues about which we feel strongly into “core beliefs”; and that Christ is glorified when we witness by getting along with one another.
I have learned that cultural diversity is not something to be tolerated but rather something to be cherished. Similarly, I suspect God intended us to have and to be stimulated by strong and varied opinions, including those regarding scriptural interpretation.
When we are so stimulated; when in our state of disagreements we are guided by the Love of Christ and by the Holy Spirit and by Scripture; when we are controlled by humility, patience, persistence, mutual respect, affection, and hope — hopefully then the gifts of language and prayer enable us to come together (or at least to appreciate our apartness!) and grow in Christian Love — and then indeed we do witness with shining faces. And other times we have to stand unhappily for a while in separate corners like squabbling siblings.
I am grateful for this discussion. As we pray for one another and for our denomination, please let us include the Anglicans/Episcopalians. May all of our sins be forgiven.
Charles
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:19 am
Charles,
God bless you. Yes I too am grateful to Rev. Bill for providing a “safe” place to share insights and concerns. May God bless and guide all of His people in the ways that we should go. I do have faith that He can do great wonders when we as Christians come together as one in Christ.
Tamara
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Thanks, Charles and Tamara, for your contributions to this discussion1!