GOD IS LOVE
January 22nd, 2006 · Posted in THEOLOGY / RELIGION ·I got the following comment to my post: About Pat from Seth Manapeo, who I presume read the post as a part of the latest GOD or NOT Carnival.
I’m confused by your god. The old testament god was certainly vengeful and full of wroth, if wroth is the word I want. It is certainly claimed in the bible that he sends floods, fire, plagues and so forth.
The new testament god surely condemns me to eternal torment, because I do not believe. This seems pretty vengeful and petty, and certainly no less vengeful than sending a stroke to a disobedient believer, or flooding a city and killing a few hundred people.
So either god is willing to bring the sword, topple nations, and inflict eternal torture on the disobedient. Where’s the love?
Good question.
From one perspective, God – particularly in the Old Testament – is depicted as being – as Seth put it – “vengeful and full of wrothâ€. And I suppose one could say that in the New Testament God does condemn those who do not believe. That is one perspective of God.
But it is not the perspective I choose to base my beliefs on.
I believe that God is love.
I believe that God is loving.
I believe that God calls us to love others.
Let me explain this perspective.
The Bible presents the story of creation where God creates the world and all things – and all things live in peace and unity with God and each other. This did not last long, however, as men and women sinned – or went against God’s will. The penalty for choosing to go against God was death and separation from God and even tumultuous relationships with each other. When this happened, all people were condemned to this life of death, separation, and turmoil. This was not God’s will – but the result of our willful actions - - or as the Bible puts it – our sins.
So – where is the love?
The love is in the fact that God did not let our sins – our separation from God and others – and death be the final answer to our condition. God provided a way for salvation by sending Jesus Christ – who was God in the flesh – God and man – to live and teach us the ways of God – and then to die on the cross so our sins could be forgiven. The chain of sin and separation from God and others was broken when Christ died on the cross. And that was not the end of the story, either – Christ rose again from the dead – and because Christ rose again we can have life eternal.
In other words, God loved us enough to send Jesus into the world and save us from our sins and their consequences.
This shows us the nature of God.
This shows us that God is love.
Does God’s love for us make us perfect?
Unfortunately, no.
People still sin.
People still refuse to love others.
People still refuse to follow God.
Dos this make God bad?
No.
Does this mean that God is not loving?
No.
God is still loving and still offers salvation to all who will follow.
That’s real love.
That’s where the love is.
Until next time – Shalom! Bill
January 22nd, 2006 at 8:04 pm
But Bill, you constantly have to do quadruple-whopper twists to justify and explain your god!
The fact is, your bible is cleverly constructed so as to allow you to believe anything you want. Jehovah is good in some places, and a monster in others.
That’d be ok if everyone were as good and bright as you, and would choose the good god. But they’re not.
So you get the Inquisition, Pat Robertson, the 16th-century conquistadores, and others who’ve used that befuddled book you swear upon to commit atrocities upon my people.
Face it: you’ve been hooked into a “circularity system” wherein anyone criticizing Jehovah/bible, is labeled “devil!”. There’s no way out of the circle for you. The devisers of your religion were very, very clever. And very ugly.
And I’m tired of sitting by and seeing the human race slaughtered by you.
January 22nd, 2006 at 10:21 pm
Athana — It’s not a twist of scripture to say that God is — in essense — love. It is the message of scripture — from the start in Genesis where God creates us for relationships to the end in Revelation where God redeems those who have had faith despite the persecutions.
I realise that not all people interprett God this way — but — as I said in my post — that does not mean that God is not loving, but that people are not.
I thank you for reading and commenting on this. It’s only through thougtful dialogue that we can learn form each other.
January 23rd, 2006 at 7:44 pm
I agree with you Bill. I believe that God is love. And I try my best to be a good Christian. I will not live my life in fear of being struck down when I screw up. And we all screw up. We are all human.
January 23rd, 2006 at 9:19 pm
Yes — Linda. Because of the work of Christ, we do not have to live in fear of God. That is indeed a wonderful blessing, isn’t it?
January 23rd, 2006 at 10:55 pm
Try looking in a bible concordance for the word “war.” Even I was amazed at how many times it’s listed in your “good” book. How do you explain this? Your god obviously sees war as a solution. I don’t. Most people I know don’t. How can we as a human species leave war behind when you push a war god from the age of barbarians onto the world?
You seem like a good man. The world needs good people, now, leading us beyond the dark days of our ancestral past.
January 24th, 2006 at 6:03 am
Athana — I deeply appreciate the compliment — and the fact that you are returning to my blog to continue the conversation.
I realise how often God is pictured as being a God of War — especially in the Old Testament. I also realise that in the New Testament there is Jesus Christ –who is the true revelation of God — teaching that the true and accurate depiction of God involves peace and love — not fighting. I would not be able to follow God without the teachings and saving work of Jesus Christ.
January 26th, 2006 at 7:28 pm
The problem is, Bill, that your bible spurs many people on to evil. Maybe not you, and not other “good” people. But Phelps, Dobson and others use certain peoples as scapegoats. And this is exactly what precipitated the Inquisition.
Also, many in your Church lie about their participation in the politics of this nation. I think pastors of churches who secretly and deceptively meddle in American politics should be jailed. Not fined, because that’s too easy. My ancestors fought to free people from The Church. Some of them died for this freedom. And it galls me that now you christians think you can convene your little old church ladies in a church basement, and get them to write letters to Congress that will further your christian posiition in this country.
You *are* the organization that brutally murdered hundreds of thousands in the Middle Ages. And I have NO reason to believe — given the behavior of national figures like Phelps, Dobson, Falwell and others — that you could not again become the source of a vast human bloodbath.
Please consider that you have been brainwashed. There are other religions. And they are better AND CLEANER than yours.
January 26th, 2006 at 8:40 pm
Athana — Thanks for continuing to read this post and continuing the conversation!
While I admit that many people have abused — tortured — and even killed others in the name of Christianity, I also know this has been done in the name of almost every other religion. The problem is not that Christianity is “bad” because some people corrupt what it teaches (just as Islam is not “bad” because some people corrupt what it teaches) –the problem is that some people are going to use everything they can for selfish gain. This does not make the religion itself wrong — but the people who choose to corrupt it.
January 26th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Well said Bill.